Comments on: My vaccine against divitis http://lonnroth.info/blog/2006/05/21/my-vaccine-against-divitis/ Music and design connected Wed, 08 Sep 2010 00:24:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.3 By: Joram Oudenaarde http://lonnroth.info/blog/2006/05/21/my-vaccine-against-divitis/#comment-31 Joram Oudenaarde Fri, 02 Jun 2006 09:06:50 +0000 http://lonnroth.info/blog/2006/05/21/my-vaccine-against-divitis/#comment-31 Personally I think you're partially right. While too many spans and div's are not really good, I do think that design has to be an important factor. Leaving dropshadows, rounded corners and other niceties just because it consumes div's and such, can really take the "design" out of a site. Of course, having too many div's and spans doesn't really help for a good semantic website, but leaving the niceties because you desperately want a semantic site doesn't always make a good site. I believe a golden middle road usually is the way to go. Leaving most of the design intact without making a clutter of the code. While webdesigning is different in essence, I treat webdesigns the same way as a folder or flyer. With both I never try to remove the niceties in order to make something "semantically right". In the end, the user/consumer has to have a good feeling when visiting or using the product. But anyhow, nice site :) I saw it on one of the css-listings (cssimport.com i believe).... there's one strange quirk I found though. If I type a few words in the comments, and want to make a new paragraph, the preview jumps around, trying to make very strange paragraphs or different lines ;) Personally I think you’re partially right. While too many spans and div’s are not really good, I do think that design has to be an important factor.

Leaving dropshadows, rounded corners and other niceties just because it consumes div’s and such, can really take the “design” out of a site. Of course, having too many div’s and spans doesn’t really help for a good semantic website, but leaving the niceties because you desperately want a semantic site doesn’t always make a good site.

I believe a golden middle road usually is the way to go. Leaving most of the design intact without making a clutter of the code. While webdesigning is different in essence, I treat webdesigns the same way as a folder or flyer. With both I never try to remove the niceties in order to make something “semantically right”. In the end, the user/consumer has to have a good feeling when visiting or using the product.

But anyhow, nice site :) I saw it on one of the css-listings (cssimport.com i believe)…. there’s one strange quirk I found though. If I type a few words in the comments, and want to make a new paragraph, the preview jumps around, trying to make very strange paragraphs or different lines ;)

]]> By: Olof Lönnroth http://lonnroth.info/blog/2006/05/21/my-vaccine-against-divitis/#comment-32 Olof Lönnroth Fri, 02 Jun 2006 10:18:29 +0000 http://lonnroth.info/blog/2006/05/21/my-vaccine-against-divitis/#comment-32 <b>Joram:</b> <blockquote cite="#comment-31"> Personally I think you’re partially right. While too many spans and div’s are not really good, I do think that design has to be an important factor. Leaving dropshadows, rounded corners and other niceties just because it consumes div’s and such, can really take the “design” out of a site.</blockquote> I partially agree with you. But, knowing the structural limitations of your documents from the beginning is a good way to avoid adding lots of non-semantic elements just for the sake of looks, and instead trying to find new ways of styling the already existing elements, and still not sacrificing the looks. And I really think, at least for me, having some limitations is a great way of finding innovation in what you do. It's only then that you start to dig deeper, trying to find new paths around the obstacles. And yeah, I know about the jumping paragraphs, I'm afraid it's a limitation of the WordPress plugin I use for those live comment previews. If anyone knows how to avoid this, please tell :) Joram:

Personally I think you’re partially right. While too many spans and div’s are not really good, I do think that design has to be an important factor. Leaving dropshadows, rounded corners and other niceties just because it consumes div’s and such, can really take the “design” out of a site.

I partially agree with you. But, knowing the structural limitations of your documents from the beginning is a good way to avoid adding lots of non-semantic elements just for the sake of looks, and instead trying to find new ways of styling the already existing elements, and still not sacrificing the looks. And I really think, at least for me, having some limitations is a great way of finding innovation in what you do. It’s only then that you start to dig deeper, trying to find new paths around the obstacles.

And yeah, I know about the jumping paragraphs, I’m afraid it’s a limitation of the WordPress plugin I use for those live comment previews. If anyone knows how to avoid this, please tell :)

]]> By: Craig Morrison http://lonnroth.info/blog/2006/05/21/my-vaccine-against-divitis/#comment-49 Craig Morrison Tue, 13 Jun 2006 02:03:09 +0000 http://lonnroth.info/blog/2006/05/21/my-vaccine-against-divitis/#comment-49 I don't think it's a case of visuals vs semantics. To me, it's about flexible prototyping of the design. When you design something on paper you might sketch it out several times before your final design starts to form. When I was using HTML tables for layout Photoshop was a good tool for placing things and moving them about before deciding on what I was going to do. When I was done I of course had a static image to cut up. After that I often couldn't change the design from the image very signifcantly without going back into to Photoshop and starting parts over again. With CSS it's a lot easier to change things and move them around, with that kind of flexibility I don't need Photoshop and when I'm taking things like text scaling into account I really don't want to start with the concept of a static image when I'm really creating something much more liquid. I don’t think it’s a case of visuals vs semantics. To me, it’s about flexible prototyping of the design. When you design something on paper you might sketch it out several times before your final design starts to form.
When I was using HTML tables for layout Photoshop was a good tool for placing things and moving them about before deciding on what I was going to do. When I was done I of course had a static image to cut up. After that I often couldn’t change the design from the image very signifcantly without going back into to Photoshop and starting parts over again.
With CSS it’s a lot easier to change things and move them around, with that kind of flexibility I don’t need Photoshop and when I’m taking things like text scaling into account I really don’t want to start with the concept of a static image when I’m really creating something much more liquid.

]]> By: Lowell http://lonnroth.info/blog/2006/05/21/my-vaccine-against-divitis/#comment-883 Lowell Fri, 01 Sep 2006 02:11:17 +0000 http://lonnroth.info/blog/2006/05/21/my-vaccine-against-divitis/#comment-883 When I start on a new website, I do all of the markup and forget about it and move onto the design phase. Even if I try to ignore the design when coding semantically, I still manage to mess up. When I start on a new website, I do all of the markup and forget about it and move onto the design phase. Even if I try to ignore the design when coding semantically, I still manage to mess up.

]]> By: Eiran http://lonnroth.info/blog/2006/05/21/my-vaccine-against-divitis/#comment-51137 Eiran Wed, 21 May 2008 07:11:13 +0000 http://lonnroth.info/blog/2006/05/21/my-vaccine-against-divitis/#comment-51137 I usually design with the final markup in my head while I'm at it, which works well for me. But each to their own, I've mostly designed for the web though, and have been for years, so it seems to come naturally now. My only problem is when I'm designing for print I still think of the markup for it... lol I usually design with the final markup in my head while I’m at it, which works well for me. But each to their own, I’ve mostly designed for the web though, and have been for years, so it seems to come naturally now. My only problem is when I’m designing for print I still think of the markup for it… lol

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